So I was wondering...
Jan. 13th, 2026 08:26 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
which_chickWhat with Recent Events and all, I was wondering if I was stopped by ICE, how would I prove I was a citizen?
I got permabanned for asking /r/AskAnAmerican how I would prove citizenship if I was detained in an ICE stop. Apparently that's not a question you can ask in /r/AskAnAmerican. It's "too political" to ask how you would prove citizenship if you needed to do that.
I think it's a decent question. I have a birth certificate (a piece of paper that has no pictures or footprints or handprints of me) and a driver's license (has a picture and current address) and a passport (has a picture and a birthdate but no address) and a social security ("not to be used for identification") card that has no address or picture and is just a little paper card with no security features.
To be fair, I don't carry any of those except the driver's license with me when I leave the house. A driver's license is not proof of citizenship and my driver's license in my state is not RealID anyway because you have to pay more for that and it's a pain in the ass. Also, I do not need a RealID for travel because I have a passport.
The thread, which was fascinating for the short half hour it existed before the permaban, was full of people claiming a RealID proved citizenship and other people claiming a RealID does not prove citizenship. People like to claim things on the internet.
Other folks suggested that US citizens should carry their passport cards with them at all times. The US passport is a blue book with paper pages and (modern) one plastic page. It is not wallet-sized and would be inconvenient to carry on every trip to Home Depot or the grocery store or whatever. But, the US also offers a "passport card" that is wallet sized like a driver's license. You can get one when you get your passport but it doesn't come included and is a separate charge. I didn't know these were A Thing but apparently they are a thing. At any rate, I do not have one.
Some people pointed out that ICE folks could look you up in the government database with just your photo ID or whatever, but it sure does not look, in the online videos I've seen, like the ICE officers are typing in your name and DoB and residence off your ID into a tablet to verify it with some database before they haul folks off. That does not appear to be what is happening in the videos.
Also, if they were doing that (just offscreen where we couldn't see them, politely asking to see ID and verifying and stuff), then how come they've picked up and held actual American citizens for multiple days at a time? That doesn't seem like a thing that should happen. (My source for it is happening is this article by propublica. Yes, they are liberal rabble-rousers. No, that does not mean that everything they put forth is lies.)
I have never dealt with ICE but I've been involved with state police in traffic stops. When I've been stopped, the police asks for my papers (driver's license, car registration, proof of insurance) so that they can verify this information against their databases and what my license plate on the car says. In a traffic stop, the police can tell if my car is stolen, if I have valid insurance on the car, if I have any outstanding warrants, if my driver's license is valid, etc. They can tell A LOT of things about me. I feel that the government databases are pretty good in that regard.
So, if ICE was really asking people for ID and checking it, they should be able to identify citizens vs. non-citizens pretty easily. And yet we're having these errors... errors that I feel moved to point out will affect persons who don't look American enough to suit ICE. While this has always been something of a problem, our (biased) Supreme Court recently ruled that the Kavanaugh Stop is 100% reasonable. (From Wikipedia: A "Kavanaugh Stop is a law enforcement practice in the United States in which federal agents can stop and detain a person based on their perceived ethnicity, spoken language, and occupation. Kavanaugh stops originated in a September 2025 Supreme Court concurrence by Justice Brett Kavanaugh in Noem v. Vasquez Perdomo." It's interesting to note here that Supreme Court Justice Brett Boof Kavanaugh does not like this law enforcement practice being called the Kavanaugh Stop. But it's a thing he did as a Supreme Court Justice. You'd think he'd be proud of his rulings and opinions. Doesn't he know that it's a Big Boy thing to have a policy named after him, and in only 7 years as a SCJ, too! I bet his mother is proud. I can't understand why he doesn't want his name on the racist-ass policy about making it OK to detain people for Not Looking American Enough.)
So, anyway, what are you supposed to do if you are detained by ICE for being suspected of not being a citizen or failing to lookAyrian American enough?
The National Immigrant Justice Center has this to say:
Papers please? PAPERS PLEASE? WTF kind of country is this? Do we not have the 4th Amendment? (The 4th prevents the average citizen from unreasonable search and seizure, including search and seizure of their documents. I also live in a state that is not a "Stop and Identify" state so I do not have to show identification to a police officer unless I am under reasonable suspicion of a crime. Check your local laws on that, it varies by state.)
Furthermore, ICE is not police and they have "no jurisdiction over American citizens" except when they shoot you in the face for being a fucking bitch. They have that jurisdiction, I guess.
Are your rights worth the paper they're printed on if you cannot exercise them for fear of being shot in the face?
I got permabanned for asking /r/AskAnAmerican how I would prove citizenship if I was detained in an ICE stop. Apparently that's not a question you can ask in /r/AskAnAmerican. It's "too political" to ask how you would prove citizenship if you needed to do that.
I think it's a decent question. I have a birth certificate (a piece of paper that has no pictures or footprints or handprints of me) and a driver's license (has a picture and current address) and a passport (has a picture and a birthdate but no address) and a social security ("not to be used for identification") card that has no address or picture and is just a little paper card with no security features.
To be fair, I don't carry any of those except the driver's license with me when I leave the house. A driver's license is not proof of citizenship and my driver's license in my state is not RealID anyway because you have to pay more for that and it's a pain in the ass. Also, I do not need a RealID for travel because I have a passport.
The thread, which was fascinating for the short half hour it existed before the permaban, was full of people claiming a RealID proved citizenship and other people claiming a RealID does not prove citizenship. People like to claim things on the internet.
Other folks suggested that US citizens should carry their passport cards with them at all times. The US passport is a blue book with paper pages and (modern) one plastic page. It is not wallet-sized and would be inconvenient to carry on every trip to Home Depot or the grocery store or whatever. But, the US also offers a "passport card" that is wallet sized like a driver's license. You can get one when you get your passport but it doesn't come included and is a separate charge. I didn't know these were A Thing but apparently they are a thing. At any rate, I do not have one.
Some people pointed out that ICE folks could look you up in the government database with just your photo ID or whatever, but it sure does not look, in the online videos I've seen, like the ICE officers are typing in your name and DoB and residence off your ID into a tablet to verify it with some database before they haul folks off. That does not appear to be what is happening in the videos.
Also, if they were doing that (just offscreen where we couldn't see them, politely asking to see ID and verifying and stuff), then how come they've picked up and held actual American citizens for multiple days at a time? That doesn't seem like a thing that should happen. (My source for it is happening is this article by propublica. Yes, they are liberal rabble-rousers. No, that does not mean that everything they put forth is lies.)
I have never dealt with ICE but I've been involved with state police in traffic stops. When I've been stopped, the police asks for my papers (driver's license, car registration, proof of insurance) so that they can verify this information against their databases and what my license plate on the car says. In a traffic stop, the police can tell if my car is stolen, if I have valid insurance on the car, if I have any outstanding warrants, if my driver's license is valid, etc. They can tell A LOT of things about me. I feel that the government databases are pretty good in that regard.
So, if ICE was really asking people for ID and checking it, they should be able to identify citizens vs. non-citizens pretty easily. And yet we're having these errors... errors that I feel moved to point out will affect persons who don't look American enough to suit ICE. While this has always been something of a problem, our (biased) Supreme Court recently ruled that the Kavanaugh Stop is 100% reasonable. (From Wikipedia: A "Kavanaugh Stop is a law enforcement practice in the United States in which federal agents can stop and detain a person based on their perceived ethnicity, spoken language, and occupation. Kavanaugh stops originated in a September 2025 Supreme Court concurrence by Justice Brett Kavanaugh in Noem v. Vasquez Perdomo." It's interesting to note here that Supreme Court Justice Brett Boof Kavanaugh does not like this law enforcement practice being called the Kavanaugh Stop. But it's a thing he did as a Supreme Court Justice. You'd think he'd be proud of his rulings and opinions. Doesn't he know that it's a Big Boy thing to have a policy named after him, and in only 7 years as a SCJ, too! I bet his mother is proud. I can't understand why he doesn't want his name on the racist-ass policy about making it OK to detain people for Not Looking American Enough.)
So, anyway, what are you supposed to do if you are detained by ICE for being suspected of not being a citizen or failing to look
The National Immigrant Justice Center has this to say:
If you are a U.S. citizen or have lawful immigration status: Show your passport, legal permanent resident card, work permit, or other documentation of your status. If you are over the age of 18, you should carry your papers with you at all times.
Papers please? PAPERS PLEASE? WTF kind of country is this? Do we not have the 4th Amendment? (The 4th prevents the average citizen from unreasonable search and seizure, including search and seizure of their documents. I also live in a state that is not a "Stop and Identify" state so I do not have to show identification to a police officer unless I am under reasonable suspicion of a crime. Check your local laws on that, it varies by state.)
Furthermore, ICE is not police and they have "no jurisdiction over American citizens" except when they shoot you in the face for being a fucking bitch. They have that jurisdiction, I guess.
Are your rights worth the paper they're printed on if you cannot exercise them for fear of being shot in the face?
